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Su Butler wrote
on 18 Aug 2010 9:08 AM

HI Saundra........you asked about doing turned S&W as well as how to turn an overshot draft into a S&W draft.  Either of these subjects is acceptable for study in this group. 

Turned S&W is written about in several texts, so I will leave that alone until you have more specific questions....

Overshot - there is a Tied Weave called Tied Overshot - two options are Uneven Tied Overshot and Even Tied Overshot.  Both are covered in The Complete Book of Drafting for Handweavers by Madelyn van der Hoogt.  A good place to start understanding.  There is also an option to create your own draft with as many ties as you desire, using an overshot pattern as the pattern.  You can do this with any weaving pattern that is woven on a single warp system, i.e. twills and satins.  We can talk more about that if that is your choice.    I would encourage you to learn as much as you can about turning Tied Weave drafts and Tied Overshot as you desire, then focus on one as your study subject.  As you work towards understanding, post your questions here and I'll do what I can to help you along!

Su

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SaundraH60 wrote
on 18 Aug 2010 10:37 AM

Thank you, Su.  I have the Madelyn van der Hoogt book that you mentioned.  You will be hearing from me once I start the project.  Now, I am even more anxious to start.  :-)

-- Saundra

 

 

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SaundraH60 wrote
on 31 Aug 2010 8:58 AM

I'm ready to start a Summer and Winter project.   I've always wanted to weave Wandering Vines (also known as Cat Track and Snail Trail) from the Davidson book.  I have a WIF file of the overshot draft in my weaving draft software.  Now, what do I have to do to change the overshot draft into a S&W draft?  My guess would be to add plan weave on heddles 1 and 2 of the draft.  Thanks.

Saundra

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Su Butler wrote
on 31 Aug 2010 9:42 AM

HI Saundra.....to change your draft to a Tied Weave, you need to do the following......

1. First make SURE you have 6 shafts and 8 treadles available as that is what it will take to do this as a 2-Tie weave.

2. Your threading draft has 124 threads in one pattern repeat.  Rewrite the draft, either on graph paper or on your computer software, so there is a blank space before EVERY pattern thread.  This will mean that one repeat is now 248 threads, so you will have to use a smaller warp thread size than you might for the original pattern.  All the pattern threads in your new draft need to be shifted UP two rows to make room for the tie down threads, so the first section of your threading draft would be written as:

(From RIGHT to left)  blank square - 6 -blank square -5 -blank square - 6 -blank square -5 -blank square -4 -blank square -5 -blank square - 4 -blank square -5 -blank square - 4 -blank square - 3 -blank square - 4 -blank square - 3 -blank square -6 -blank square -3 -blank square -6 -blank square - 3

Follow this same prodcedure, shifting the entire pattern warp up two shafts until one full threading repeat has been written out with one blank square before every pattern thread. 

Now, in the blank squares, starting with the first blank sqaure on the RIGHT, the one before the first pattern thread on shaft four, insert threads in all blank sqaures, (right to left) alternating shaft 1 and 2 so your threading now reads, from RIGHT to left:

1-6-2-5-1-6-2-5-1-4-2-5-1-4-2-5-1-4-2-3-1-4-2-3-1-6-2-3-1-6-2-3

All the threads on shafts one and two are tie down threads and all the threads on shafts 3-6 are pattern threads.

In the tie up box, tie up as follows:

Treadle one: Tie so shafts 1 and 2 rise

Treadle two: Tie so shafts 3-6 rise

Treadle three: Tie so shaft ONE rises

Treadle four: Tie so shaft TWO rises

Treadle five: Tie so shafts 2 and3 rise

Treadle six: Tie so shafts 3 and 4 rise

Treadle seven: Tie so shafts 1 and 4 rise

Treadle eight: Tie so shafts 1 and 2 rise.

When you go to treadle the pattern, remember that tied weaves such as this, technically called a double two-tie because each threading "unit" has two tie down ends and pattern ends on two different shafts, you need to remember that you must treadle the pattern required to achieve the Cats Tracks and Snail Trail pattern ALONG WITH one of the tie down threads.  Each pattern pick will require you to use two treadles, one for the pattern and one for the tie down threads.  Alternating BETWEEN those pattern picks will be the tabby, or ground pick shots.  (Tabby in a tied weave draft is all the tie down threads vs. all the pattern threads).  These should be woven with a thread that is smaller than the warp and as close to the same color as possible and will use the first two treadles.  Your pattern calls for the "Use Tabby", and you will be throwing a "tabby" shot after each pattern/tie down pick, but NOT using the treadles originally set up for tabby in the Cats Tracks and Snail Trail pattern.  What you are now weaving is ground cloth with the tie downs vs. the patterns instead of a plain weave ground cloth using just the pattern threads. 

So your treadling will be rendered in four thread "units"

Tabby a - lifting shafts 1 and 2 (treadle one)

Pattern (raising 1 and 4 on treadle six) PLUS tie down 1 (treadle three)

Tabby b - lifting shafts 3-6 (with treadle two)

Pattern (raising 1 and 4 on treadle six) PLUS tie down 2 (Treadle four)

You will continue this four pick treadling "unit" for the entire duration of the weaving, changing only the pattern treadle as needed to create the Cats Tracks and Snail Trail pattern.  So you would repeat the pattern (on treadle six) SIX times, then change to the pattern on treadle eight SIX times etc. The four thread treadling unit will be used consistently for the entire weaving. 

I would write out the treadling and follow a draft, as it can become confusing to remember the tabby order, tie down order and pattern required at any given moment. Once you start to get a feel for how these are woven, you will be able to tell if the correct tie down is being raised at any given point...it is a little harder to tell if the correct tabby is being woven. 

Hope that helps Saundra!

Best,

Su

 

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SaundraH60 wrote
on 31 Aug 2010 6:07 PM

Thank you, Su.  Your explanation is extremely helpful.  My plan is to use 16/2 yarn for the warp and tabby and 8/2 for the pattern.  Would that work out well?

-- Saundra

 

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Su Butler wrote
on 31 Aug 2010 6:50 PM

You're quite welcome Saundra.....I would opt for a little finer tabby (ground cloth weft), say a 20/2 if your warp is 16/2.  It will help the pattern definition more and still do a great job weaving a ground cloth that is stabile. You can, of course, use the 16/2, but I just think the pattern will be a little more defined if you use the smaller 20/2.  If you can, put on enough warp to do some small samples prior to starting the whole project, and try weaving with both the 16/2 and 20/2, then cut off and wet finish to see which one you like the best. 

Happy tied weaving!

Su :-)

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70emma wrote
on 29 Mar 2012 1:29 PM

My name is Emma and I have just begun weaving, I chose to start with rugs and have made about 8 so far.I am using tshirt yarn for these rugs. I am getting tired of just plain stripes. Can I do a zig zag pattern on a ridgid heddle loom. I have blocked out the pattern but don't know how or if I can do it on my loom. If you can help me I would greatly appreciate it.

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Su Butler wrote
on 29 Mar 2012 3:20 PM

HI Emma.....I am not really all that skilled in using a rigid heddle loom, but I believe if you want to do a zig-sag pattern you will have to use pickup.   Perhaps someone more knowledgable than myself will be able to tell you if you can get such a pattern using more than one rigid heddle.    Otherwise you can use a  pickup stick to pick up your zig zag pattern, throw your wefts and create your pattern on your loom.  You will have to be aware of float length so you don't end up with floats that are too long to make a functional piece.

Am I understanding correctly that you are using tied weaves to create your rugs on your rigid heddle loom?  I only ask as this forum is the tied weaves study group but I am having difficult connecting your question to tied weaves.  You might get more answers if you post your query to the general weaving forum.....

Su :-)

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CharleneS@7 wrote
on 21 Feb 2013 5:28 AM

Have the warp wound for Anne Dixon's "Color Play in summer & winter"  from Handwoven  May/June 2010.  Ready to beam on.

Question is: In the weft instructions for #3 and beyond.  It looks like you are weaving the pattern weft in different order - off set 1 - Do you do the tabby weft in the original order?  If not then many samples would be the same just offset.

Did anyone weave this?


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Su Butler wrote
on 21 Feb 2013 9:28 AM

HI Charlene......You are correct, you are weaving the colors in a different order.  For sample number three you are starting with the second color, orange, and following the color order chart, so would be followed by yellow, green, blue, etc.  For the fourth sample you shift again, starting with the third color, i.e. yellow, and then following the chart.  This allows you to get different block color combinations.  But in the end you can use the colors in any order you wish to get the look you desire.  When weaving any tied weave, one thing to keep in mind is the order the tie down threads are used.  They need to be used consistently throughout the weaving.  In the case of this pattern they are used in 1-2-2-1 order.  This allows the pattern threads to build in little bundles of two floating together on the surface of the cloth.  The order the tie down threads are used can be changed, but must be used the same way for the entire piece of cloth or it will look like you made a mistake. You can use them in 1-2-2-1 order, as in the pattern, or 1-2-1-2 order, which will stack the pattern threads up like bricks, 2-1-1-2 order which is pretty much the same look as the patterns original order or dukagang style by using only shaft one or shaft two for EVERY pattern pick.    The tabby, which is actually called the ground cloth pick because you are weaving the ground cloth that is being decorated with the pattern wefts, is always woven the same regardless of how you change the colors or the tie down thread order.  Your treadling (for Summer and Winter) will always be Tabby a (Ground pick a), tie-down with pattern, Tabby B, tie-down with pattern.  (Of course if could be pattern first followed by tabby)  As long as you weave using the appropriate tie down thread with the pattern pick, and follow it with the appropriate tabby shot, you will be fine.  

Your samples, if you follow the instructions, will show various color combinations in each of the design blocks, but you are correct, they are simply "offsetting" the color order.  It can make a difference in the final look of the cloth, as you can see from the samples in the magazine, so worth doing the samples.   Like I said earlier, you can weave the colors in any order that pleases you.  The key to weaving tied weaves well is to maintain the tabby and tie down order.  You can do anything you want with the pattern threads!

Happy weaving!

Su :-)

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CharleneS@7 wrote
on 21 Feb 2013 10:32 AM

Thank you Su,  So the tabby is always in the same order and the pattern weft changes.That is the only way it makes sense to have a change of colors. Other wise it would be the same as the first one - just in a different order.

 

Charlene


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Su Butler wrote
on 21 Feb 2013 10:55 AM

HI Charlene.....the tabby is always the same color order - that being the same as the warp.  The way I interpret the instructions is that you would weave 29 tabby picks in red, then 28 in orange, 28 in yellow etc.  Since it takes 28  picks to complete one design square, perhaps you would want to do 28 picks of tabby instead of 29 with the red.  That way you are changing tabby colors when you change the pattern color.  The tabby color rotation always is the same, the pattern color order changes for each new sample.  Hope that is clear.  

Su :-)

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CharleneS@7 wrote
on 23 Feb 2013 4:55 AM

Su,

Thanks for your help. Have started the fun part - after the plain tabby gamp.

Did not have the rainbow colors but specific colors from another 20/2 project. Finding new combinations in the colors and learning more than another red, orange, yellow . . . gamp.

 

 


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Su Butler wrote
on 25 Feb 2013 7:42 PM

VERY pretty Charlene.....so much dimension!  Have fun weaving all your samples!

 

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